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r/AmITheAsshole · Posted by u/confused-throwaway-son-4176 23 hours ago.
My (M40s) mother (F76) just told me that she intends to have six (!) daughters with my deceased father and co-parent with my father's secret male lover (M40s). AITA for thinking that there should have been discussion with me about this first?
Asshole
I am a man well into middle age (by the standards of my home planet) and with a number of children of my own in the range of 2-10 years old. My family lives on my homeworld while my parents held important jobs on another world several jumps away. Unfortunately, my father passed a year ago due to old age and a persistent heart problem. I've been urging my mother to return home so that she can be with her family and friends, especially since she's often lamented how little she gets to see her grandchildren. She has been resistant and I understand that it's ultimately her decision, especially since she's built a life offworld.
However, during my family's recent visit, she dropped a plasma shell on me. She says she's going to have six daughters! They'll be conceived using somatic cells she and my father saved at some point. She hasn't set the exact timing yet but said she always wanted to have more children than just myself (and my clone brother but that is a very long and unintentional story). I know that originally the politics of my planet prevented her and father from doing so but I had assumed once I reached adulthood that she had long since given up on that and would be satisfied with grandchildren. Now it seems like she was holding off due to my dad's health or something!
Thankfully she'll be using a uterine replicator, so there are no worries about her physical wellbeing, but I was concerned about her ability to keep up with a bunch of daughters. I understand that as a Betan with lifelong access to galactic medicine she's not slowing down the same way many of her peers are, but she's still getting up there. That's when the second lance strike landed. She plans to co-parent with someone I had thought was just a family friend, who is my age. It turns out that he was in a secret relationship with my father for the last twenty-ish years! I had been aware that my father was bisexual and I have no problem with that but I'd always thought that he and my mother were exclusive. It's upsetting to find out otherwise only after the fact and I feel more than a little betrayed by not being told for half my life. I got the impression that mother was not involved directly but now she may be courting him too, which just makes it all the more awkward. She has even offered to let him use my father's gametes to conceive children of his own and he seems to have agreed.
It's all very shocking and I told her that I thought this was all a terrible idea, which just made her angry in return. I know I'm far from the first man to find out that he's getting some new siblings (and apparently illegitimate half-siblings) at my age, but I expected better from my mother, who is usually much more responsible and considerate of others' feelings. It's going to be very strange and awkward for all of my children to have aunts and uncles who are younger than them, and it's going to raise a lot of eyebrows and gossip back home. It's not like I'm a complete stick in the mud about this sort of thing, well over a decade ago I discovered I had an illegally-created clone brother and accepted him with open arms. To be clear, I'm also not doing anything stupid like trying to forbid her from doing it as my father's legal heir.
Now various family and friends are saying that I'm overreacting. However, I feel like as a member of the family who's going to be impacted by this and have to deal with all the social fallout while she's on another planet, I had a right to expect to be informed about all of this (especially the extra lover that she may or may not be having her own thing with now??) and included in a discussion instead of being handed a lit stick of dynamite on what was supposed to be a fun family vacation. It was already stressful enough with the exploding wildlife.
tl;dr I'm just saying that maybe we could have talked about potential siblings and secret homosexual lovers at some point before now.
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u/WanderingListener 22 hours ago
NAH but leaning slightly towards Y-T-A. I'm going to assume from your comment about your mother using a uterine replicator and your father's age that you are from one of the more fringe planets of the nexus where many of the wider galaxy's medical advancements are not or were not fully available, and from a planet where the social roles of women of her age are more strictly defined than on Beta.
There are many worlds where it is more common for women (and men as well) to wait until later in life to start families, and 'later' can get quite long once you have a combination of gene cleaning, life extension therapies, and replicators to remove the biological strain of pregnancy. This is especially true where there are special circumstances that make it harder to have children, such as already having one with some sort of special needs or a high-stress career. It sounds like your planet is one which is making a rapid technical transition and your generation is the first where that sort of thing is even possible, so social mores haven't caught up. Your mother also seems to have hit a situation where she was caring for a child and dealing with a lot of professional responsibilities, and then once she was ready to have more your father was at an age where it wouldn't have been fair to dump that extra stress on him.
I have sympathy for you feeling left out of the decision, because it sounds like you are a stakeholder who's going to be impacted. I'm also glad that you understand that ultimately it is her choice. I think your family would have been better off if this change had been discussed more openly so that you could get used to the idea and propose ways to mitigate any potential harm. However, I also have sympathy for your mother, who has likely desired more children for some time and is grieving the loss of her life partner when she's only in her middle age.
It's never too late to talk, though. If you want to stay on the correct side of being TA, you need to keep lines of communication open. Ask what you can do to support her and consider ways that your family can spend more time with her and her new co-parent. Don't worry about the children, they won't realize that there's a difference between same-age cousins and same-age aunts unless you make it weird for them. If anyone outside the family comments, politely thank them for their comment and then do whatever your local equivalent of 'bless your heart' is.
u/confused-throwaway-son-4176 20 hours ago
Thank you for taking the time to write this out and not just snapping off a one-liner.
u/WanderingListener 20 hours ago
No problem! I think in most cases it's important to help people realize why they're TA and find a path forward. If you'd like, I can give you some suggestions on how to find a reputable family therapy specialist. Obviously availability varies from planet to planet but these days there are a number of interstellar cross-credential networks that can help you find someone who is both ethical and efficacious.
u/confused-throwaway-son-417620 hours ago
I'm not sure my mother would be open to therapy. She's in favor of it in the abstract but in the past she had a bad experience and avoids it herself. I'll see if I can find some other person to mediate who we can both trust.
u/SergyarrranPirate19 hours ago
First off, YTA. Get a grip, dude. Second, I feel like I'm going crazy here. I can't be the only one putting this together. Betan woman, late seventies, important position, 'politics on my home planet', exploding wildlife - are we talking about the Vicereine?
u/SolarSailSkipper19 hours ago
The who what now?
u/SergyarrranPirate19 hours ago
Dowager Countess Cordelia Naismith Vorkosigan, the Vicereine of Sergyar! I read in one of the gossip rags that she's retiring to raise a daughter!
u/SolarSailSkipper19 hours ago
Cordelia Naismith as in the survey captain and hero of the Escobar War??? The one who was brainwashed or kidnapped or something?
u/SergeyarrranPirate19 hours ago
Yes, but if you claim she was kidnapped I think she'd kick you in the junk or take you shopping. She spoke to my university commencement two years ago and used the term self-rescued. Given that she's hanging around with that hunky admiral all the time, maybe she just loves a man in uniform.
u/DreadnoughtQueen18 hours ago
Maybe I'm being TA now, but I feel like once you've snagged one DILF admiral there is an obligation to leave the rest for other people. There aren't a lot to go around.
u/SolsticeSabersFan18 hours ago
Did you just call the Butcher of Komarr a DILF?!?
u/EntangledWave 19 hours ago
YTA and so is your dad. You for thinking your mom's reproduction is something you have a say in and for saying your half-siblings will be 'illegitimate,' and him for having a relationship with what sounds like a very problematic age gap. How did they even meet?
u/confused-throwaway-son-4176 19 hours ago
At the time he was my father's adjutant. He was a few years ahead of me at university.
u/EntangledWave 19 hours ago
Okay so that's like double problematic. No wonder you turned out like this.
u/FriendlyLocalBetaReader 17 hours ago
He was the ~adjutant~.
u/EntangledWave 19 hours ago
Do you even know what an adjutant is?
u/FriendlyLocalBetaReader 17 hours ago
Encyclopedia Galactica says "hot young thing that serves an older officer, often in close quarters".
u/AvidOnlooker 17 hours ago
Oh so this is basically your average erotica plot about cramped survey ships and cold nights on planetary exploration parties, but with more hierarchy. How very Barrayaran.
u/TwistingTangoTapdance 17 hours ago
Isn't this one of those planets where same-sex relationships get you flogged? Should we be talking about this where their secret police might find out and get someone in trouble?
u/NotThatIdiot 16 hours ago
Tell me you know nothing about military schools without telling me you know nothing about military schools.
u/NowWithAnO 16 hours ago
Any flogging is strictly behind closed doors.
u/RainbowScholar 16 hours ago
I wrote a thesis on Barrayaran attitudes towards queer sexualities a few years ago while doing my gender studies PhD. It's actually surprisingly complex and also full of elaborate self-denial. Lots of boys-will-be-boys until they're at a marriageable age, plus a fair amount of 'what happens on campaign stays on campaign', which can lead to both some really fascinating historical romances (and tragedies) but also things like, well, *waves at the Escobar war crimes*.
Historically there were a few districts where it was criminalized but that largely got quashed under DtJ's push to standardize the legal code (mostly because it was a way to simultaneously exert dominance and look good to Beta). Under GVB things have moved from mere tolerance toward official sanction. Many in the older generations still see an open relationship as pretty scandalous, especially in the higher classes, but there's a reason why the new holovid series about the Ceta resistance has that very popular subplot about Lord Vorpardijis and his ~loyal armsman~.
Meanwhile, for a very long time the general stance on lesbians was that they don't exist, but let me tell you, when you read the diaries of Time of Isolation countesses, you start to see a lot of handmaidens or spinster sisters-in-law who hang around for forty or fifty years.
u/NotThatIdiot 15 hours ago
If you're still doing research on the topic, PM me and I'll put you in contact with a Komarran historian in VBS I know, he loves this shit.
u/RainbowScholar 15 hours ago
Do you mean Dr. Galeni? I always assumed he stopped publishing because ImpSec disappeared him after he wrote that paper on Yuri's military reforms.
u/NotThatIdiot 15 hours ago
Not exactly what happened, but yes. He could hook you up with all sorts of primary sources.
u/confused-throwaway-son-4176 15 hours ago
Stay out of my damned attic.
u/HistoryBirb 14 hours ago
Move the materials to a museum or archive and I will.
u/HistoryBirb 16 hours ago
I don't think that you can mention the current Vorparadijis plot without also referencing its inspiration, the classic doorstop "Oaths Unbroken" by Pierre Vorrutyer (no, not that one, although I think it's clear he was using Le Sanguinaire's own private papers as a reference for the period). While set during Dorca's unification, it provides a lot of insight into the early years of EVB's reign and the social and political tensions that the author is indirectly addressing. One of the key plot threads is the relationship between the fictional Lord Alexi Vorsamaras, his brother the count, and his assigned armsman turned lover Matthaios. Alexi supports Dorca, while the count is part of the faction opposing the centralization of power, and to summarize a thousand pages of romantic comradery, torrid sex, and complicated politics, the lovers end up facing each other in battle, with tragedy averted at the last moment when the count is struck down with one of Dorca's shiny new plasma rifles and Alexi can swear Matthaios into his own service. Yadda yadda, arranged marriage to the daughter of another Dorca loyalist, and in the epilogue they die at each other's side fighting the Cetagandans and Alexi's son steps into his father's place. Also, they spend a lot of time avoiding the word love until they're literally screaming at each other on a blood-soaked battlefield.
It's really quite romantic and by the standards of the rest of the book's relationships barely even tragic, given they get to live several years in peace. Compare that to Countess Vorrutyer's much less fictional last stand holding off the assassins while her son is carried away by her handmaiden (I suppose I should write ~handmaiden~), or Ludmilla smuggling Mikhail cyanide in the square.
u/NotThatIdiot 16 hours ago
I see you found this shitshow
u/HistoryBirb 16 hours ago
My comconsole goes *ding* every time OP does something publicly silly.
u/FriendlyLocalBetaReader 14 hours ago
Since we seem to have switched from AITA to AskHistorians, does anyone ever survive your novels?
u/HistoryBirb 14 hours ago
That particular period of ' high literature' often shows a dichotomy between successfully achieving your goals despite a cost versus living in ignominy. This was usually meant to exhort people to live honorable lives. By later in Ezar's reign you start seeing an interesting subversion, with people dying heroically for ideals that were unfashionably progressive for the time. As long as they met a tragic end the authors could tell the censors that they were showing the folly of excessive undesirable thoughts. It's also why authors of the time frequently put Prince Xav and his companions in somewhat anachronistic situations, where any complaints would mean criticizing one of EVB's closest allies.
Actual romance novels have pretty much the same ratio of gloom to HEA as anywhere else, except Cetaganda, where things are different.
u/NowWithAnO 13 hours ago
It's funny you should mention it, I found those papers in my basement, along with a hand-written draft manuscript. Would you like to see them? u/RainbowScholar can come too, I'm thinking of sponsoring some historical research into old Pierre now that people aren't so terrified to write about him.
u/NotThatIdiot 17 hours ago
YTA. This should not be a surprise because you are always TA.
First, I've personally had to take it to heart that what my mother does in bed is none of my business. My stress level went down a lot after accepting that. You can't expect a widow to remain single forever, especially once she's done her duty and got her child to adulthood despite his best efforts to get himself killed. Just be a good sport and hope your mom doesn't get too candid about what she does with your not-quite father in law.
Second, how can you be this dense and function in your job?
u/confused-throwaway-son-4176 17 hours ago
I don't see what my job has to do with my personal life.
u/NotThatIdiot 16 hours ago
I was going to say that it's concerning how often you can't see things ten feet in front of your face, but then I realized your old job meant you were never home for the holidays and you missed all those excruciating family dinners where your father and his gentleman caller pretended to ignore each other, your mother pretended not to be smug, and everyone else pretended they didn't know anything was going on.
u/confused-throwaway-son-4176 16 hours ago
Who else knows about this?
u/NotThatIdiot 16 hours ago
Well, I imagine both your current and former bosses have been getting security briefings for twenty years. Mother. All of the armsmen and the ImpSec security details. And at this point you seem to have alerted half of the nexus.
I'm going to ask again, how are you still alive if this is how you keep secrets? Did the Cetas just not kill you out of pity?
u/DreadnoughtQueen 15 hours ago
🍿 👀 🍿
u/CathodeRayCube 13 hours ago
YTA. It sounds like she did you a favor by waiting until she could tell you in person and now you're throwing a fit about it. Grow up and stop acting like a woman is ancient when she hasn't even hit three digits yet. If you have access to speddit then you're not from some medieval hellhole like Geidur Gamma or Barrayar where everyone dies of consumption at fifty.
u/SolarSailSkipper 13 hours ago
There's a difference between ancient and being considered an elder. There's plenty of places where someone in their seventh or eighth decade is expected to retire from work and help care for grandchildren. Beta is a bit of an outlier because they're a bunch of control freaks about reproduction and so a lot of people have to put it off longer than they'd like.
u/CathodeRayCube 13 hours ago
Control freaks? We have the highest rating for sexual freedom in the galaxy!
SergeyarrranPirate 13 hours ago
Yeah, and you deny a lot of people the opportunity to make their own reproductive decisions, because you live on a blasted hellscape and haven't updated your laws to acknowledge that modern technology means you're no longer in a desperate resource shortage.
u/RetvrnToTraditionBRYR 14 hours ago
NTA. This sort of thing is exactly why uterine replicators are a bad idea. You're the head of the household, have some balls and tell her you're forbidding her from doing this strange necromantic conception.
u/confused-throwaway-son-4176 14 hours ago
I was starting to feel I was in the wrong but this seals the deal. Thank you.
u/RetvrnToTraditionBRYR 14 hours ago
Have you considered dealing with this affront in the custmary way, such as locking her in the attic or giving her some medication to calm her nerves?
u/SergeyarrranPirate 13 hours ago
Well, we certainly won't be seeing this guy posting again.
u/MasterOfCelesitalGardens4thClass 10 hours ago
Info: Is this is approved by the matriarch guarding your genetic line? A post-mortem conception is generally an indication that existing children of the match have shown exceptional performance. You should be proud that your mother is adding to your lineage and that your father is so respected that his genes are desired by another highly successful family. If it has not been approved, perhaps you should seek assistance from a higher authority in convincing her to return to the correct path.
u/NowWithAnO 11 hours ago
YTA. For someone who's half-Betan, you sound a lot like your grandfather sometimes. Let's chat about ways to bring our bioethics laws up to modern standards once you stop throwing a hissy fit.
u/confused-throwaway-son-4176 11 hours ago
What is the point of a throwaway if people are still going to cyberstalk me from two planets away?